Organize OpenSIPS Resources
In the near future we are planning to release some extra resources that the community can use to improve the project's experience:
During this public meeting we are planning to discuss about how to integrate all our resources (repo, site, wiki, blog) in a unified manner. The goal is for anyone in the community to have easy and straight-forward access to all project's resources, through a single identifier.
16:58 < razvanc>| Hey guys! 16:58 < razvanc>| the first Public meeting this year is about to start :) 17:01 --- | bogdan_vs has changed the topic to: OpenSIPS monthly meeting in progress 17:01 < BernardB>| Hello :) 17:01 < saghul>| Ahoi! 17:02 <@ bogdan_vs>| Hi everyone ! 17:02 < razvanc>| hello there! 17:02 <@ bogdan_vs>| OK, let's try to keep < 1 hours, so let's get it started 17:02 < razvanc>| Today's meeting we'll be discussing about how to organize OpenSIPS resources 17:03 < razvanc>| you can find a short description about the topic here: http://www.opensips.org/Community/IRCmeeting20150128 17:03 <@ bogdan_vs>| shortly : right now we have only the web site 17:04 <@ bogdan_vs>| which is wiki based and probably few people know they can edit content there 17:04 < lirakis>| lol - yeah i had no idea it was a wiki 17:04 <@ bogdan_vs>| it is not too intuitive imho to have the entire site editable....people get scare 17:04 < lirakis>| sure 17:04 <@ bogdan_vs>| lirakis: exactly 17:04 < lirakis>| the modules docs are generated from whats in the git repo though ... correct? 17:05 < liviuc>| correct 17:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| and we intend to add more resources 17:05 < lirakis>| ok 17:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| like a blog 17:05 < BernardB>| I think an 'wiki' department would really give some added value 17:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| pastebin like maybe 17:05 < BernardB>| maybe to get some tutorials 17:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| true 17:05 < BernardB>| a forum? 17:06 <@ bogdan_vs>| maybe, before we had one on SF, but collided with the mailing lists 17:06 < lirakis>| i think a forum ... might be problematic 17:06 < saghul>| 90s called, they want their forums back :-) 17:06 < lirakis>| difficut to moderate 17:06 < BernardB>| haha, true, but a forum is a good alternative to 'slow chat' 17:07 < ccjaph>| I like the perlmonks site style, it's a little dated but provides a comunity forum 17:07 < lirakis>| lots of people saying "plz help me with my proxy. i want to make skype clone." 17:07 <@ bogdan_vs>| :) 17:07 < lirakis>| i mean i like forums ... but they can be tough to "keep clean" 17:07 < BernardB>| but what is currently the place to put your opensips problems? 17:08 < saghul>| how about the new kid in town? discourse 17:08 < BernardB>| I'm not always happy to post to the user-list 17:08 <@ bogdan_vs>| BernardB: the mailing list :) 17:08 < razvanc>| BernardB: why not? 17:08 <@ bogdan_vs>| why not ? 17:08 < lirakis>| i actually dont like the mailing lists ... 17:08 < BernardB>| I don't know really why 17:08 < saghul>| FYI: http://www.discourse.org/ 17:08 < lirakis>| if i subscribe to it ... i get tons of emails i dont want 17:09 < BernardB>| but mailing is like a doorstep 17:09 <@ bogdan_vs>| I cannot promise, but we do not have witches or bad wolfs there ;) 17:09 < razvanc>| lirakis: why not :)? What else would you use? 17:09 < BernardB>| lirakis: currenlty I don't see many mails 17:09 <@ bogdan_vs>| (in the mailing lists) 17:09 < lirakis> | razvanc, i do like forums better honestly, i find them easier to "consume" the information I want, and easier to contribute to 17:10 < BernardB>| discourse looks like a forum in 2.0 webstyle 17:10 < lirakis>| but i agree with bogdan ... having both mailing + forums is not good 17:10 < lirakis>| too much collision 17:10 < saghul>| lirakis: agreed! 17:10 < razvanc>| saghul: that looks like a forum to me :) 17:11 < saghul> | razvanc: it's forums-ng! not that I like it, just throwing out ideas :-) 17:11 < BernardB>| a wiki editable by users is a really good idea, but isn't handy for discussions 17:11 < lirakis>| yeah ... i think making some "section" of the site, a more defined "wiki" is a good idea 17:11 <@ bogdan_vs>| BernardB: here is the forum we had on SF site - https://sourceforge.net/p/opensips/discussion/839860/ 17:11 < lirakis>| so people can contribute tutorials etc. 17:11 <@ bogdan_vs>| not much of an activity .... 17:11 <@ bogdan_vs>| so the plan (in regards to the web site) is to split it 17:12 <@ bogdan_vs>| keep the core as non editable (for users).... 17:12 <@ bogdan_vs>| and add an wiki.opensips.org 17:12 < lirakis>| sounds like a good plan 17:12 <@ bogdan_vs>| for managing tutorials, contributions, etc 17:12 < BernardB>| bogdan_vs: I don't think everybody looks on SF 17:13 < lirakis>| i agree ... the forums on SF are not easy to find etc. 17:13 <@ bogdan_vs>| BernardB: that was an example of failed experiment with forums :) 17:13 < saghul>| SF is dead really 17:13 < lirakis>| any who 17:13 < lirakis>| yeah i agree .. SF is dead heh 17:13 <@ bogdan_vs>| in regards to wiki.opensips.org... 17:13 <@ bogdan_vs>| user will need access 17:13 <@ bogdan_vs>| also they will need for the blog 17:14 <@ bogdan_vs>| and for the github 17:14 <@ bogdan_vs>| etc.. 17:14 <@ bogdan_vs>| key question is - can we do a single login for all ? 17:14 < BernardB>| that should be the best 17:14 < lirakis>| OATH with github account? 17:14 < BernardB>| I guess github has an API for authorisation? 17:14 < BernardB>| lirakis: like that :) 17:15 < lirakis>| if we have to OATH with anything ... i think github makes the most sense 17:15 < lirakis>| please no google+ or facebook 17:15 < lirakis>| lol 17:15 <@ bogdan_vs>| lirakis: does GH supports OATH ? 17:15 < BernardB>| https://developer.github.com/v3/oauth/ 17:15 < liviuc>| yes, it does 17:15 <@ bogdan_vs>| as we can do a single login, and it will be more friendly for the users 17:15 <@ bogdan_vs>| no need to create endless accounts... 17:15 < saghul>| if we go with a standalone wiki, the one on GH should be disabled 17:16 < saghul>| it's empty now 17:16 <@ bogdan_vs>| true... 17:16 <@ bogdan_vs>| we were looking at mediawiki...if not wrong... 17:17 < razvanc>| we were thinking of either mediawiki or dokuwiki 17:17 <@ bogdan_vs>| as a popular and easy to use wiki engine 17:17 < razvanc>| any experience with them? 17:17 < lirakis>| ive used mediawiki before 17:17 < lirakis>| i mean its what wikipedia uses right ? so people are familiar with how it works 17:17 < saghul>| MarkDown seems to have won the markup languages war 17:17 < saghul>| maybe something that can be edited in MarkDown? 17:18 < lirakis>| i think that mediawiki can be ... 17:18 < lirakis>| i think thats its default ... i cant remember 17:18 < lirakis>| if not .. i thought that was "pluggable" 17:18 < OliverTynes>| if its done right, a wiki on github is very good, especially because its so easy to cross reference with the code (for more in-depth explanation of stuff) 17:18 < saghul>| lirakis: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MarkdownSyntax 17:18 < razvanc>| lirakis: yes, it seems pluggable 17:19 < saghul>| the plugin doesn't seem to be maintained though 17:20 <@ bogdan_vs>| OliverTynes: I prefer not to re-invent the wheel, but external resources are hard to be "visible" for the users 17:20 <@ bogdan_vs>| does mediawiki have a OAUTH plugin ? 17:20 < lirakis>| i dont think there is huge value in having the wiki ON github personally 17:21 < lirakis>| yes 17:21 < lirakis>| that apeears to be maintained as well 17:21 < lirakis>| http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OATHAuth 17:21 < razvanc>| saghul: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MarkdownExtraParser 17:21 < razvanc>| this seems to be maintained, although it is beta 17:22 < saghul>| aha 17:22 < lirakis>| well really the bottom line is that mediawiki is a familiar "look and feel" to people b/c of how popular wikipedia is 17:22 < lirakis>| IMO 17:23 < razvanc>| what do you say about dokuwiki? 17:23 < razvanc>| there's also a markdown pluging for it 17:24 < lirakis>| i actually dont know much about docuwiki 17:24 < lirakis>| i know that the search functionality on older mediawiki SUCKED lol 17:24 < lirakis>| im not sure if its better now 17:24 < saghul>| it's not only how familiar users are with the looks, but how easy it is for them to use it 17:24 < liviuc>| ^ 17:24 < saghul>| use it as in, edit it and add content 17:24 < razvanc>| let's see which one has a wysiwyg plugin 17:25 < razvanc>| I find that important for adding content 17:25 < lirakis>| i know mediawiki does 17:25 < BernardB>| mediawiki has some more plugins I guess 17:25 < lirakis>| i set up a mediawiki for my previous company - and people who were not technical had to be able to edit and contribute to it 17:25 < saghul>| ok, now, assuming good content goes in, there needs to be a "curator", so that it doesn't rot 17:26 < lirakis>| yeah a big problem with wiki's 17:26 <@ bogdan_vs>| any volunteers ? :D 17:26 <@ bogdan_vs>| (just joking) 17:27 < razvanc>| bogdan_vs: were you :)? 17:27 <@ bogdan_vs>| well, I gave it a try, you never know :) 17:27 <@ bogdan_vs>| so what we have so far: 17:28 <@ bogdan_vs>| 1) wiki.opensips.org pulled out from opensips.org to contain docs, tutorial, users stuff 17:28 < brettnem>| Hey all 17:28 <@ bogdan_vs>| 2) maybe using mediawiki 17:28 < lirakis>| sorry got an IM 17:28 < lirakis>| bogdan_vs, im happy to help out as much as i can with wiki maintenance 17:29 <@ bogdan_vs>| 3) using some unified login system 17:29 <@ bogdan_vs>| (for wiki, GH, blog, etc) 17:29 <@ bogdan_vs>| 4) install a blogging engine 17:29 <@ bogdan_vs>| lirakis: thanks, we can see when getting there 17:30 < lirakis>| so ... re:blog 17:30 <@ bogdan_vs>| we were chatting in the office and we find the idea of a blog useful 17:30 < lirakis>| would this supplant the "news" section 17:30 <@ bogdan_vs>| some place were ideas can be shared and discussed 17:31 <@ bogdan_vs>| different kind of ideas... can be about devel, about docs, about tests, etc 17:31 < lirakis>| ok 17:32 <@ bogdan_vs>| basically the blog may be a "catch all" for what is not a news, not a tutorial, etc 17:32 < lirakis>| gotcha 17:32 <@ bogdan_vs>| if doesn't fit anywhere -> it goes to the blog 17:32 <@ bogdan_vs>| :) 17:33 <@ bogdan_vs>| the question is : what other resources are missing ? 17:33 <@ bogdan_vs>| I suppose the forum concept is dropped 17:33 < lirakis>| i mean i think webpage + wiki + blog + github is a pretty good set 17:33 < lirakis>| yeah i think forums would ... split the efforts too much 17:34 < lirakis>| wiki is a better place to focus 17:35 <@ bogdan_vs>| indeed, there is not a huge volume of discussions, so ideally we should keep them focused 17:37 < brettnem>| Splitting discussions between a mailing list and forum I think is too confusing 17:37 < lirakis>| yes 17:38 < brettnem>| GH also has a lot of these resources built in 17:38 < lirakis>| yes - def. for issues etc. 17:38 < lirakis>| and i think that SHOULD be linked from the site 17:38 < lirakis>| etc. 17:39 <@ bogdan_vs>| IMHO, GH should keep devel related tools only...not more than that 17:39 < BernardB>| :) 17:39 < lirakis>| yeah - i think the "issues" stuff should be ... source code 17:39 < lirakis>| not like "how does load balancer work" 17:39 < brettnem>| Right 17:39 <@ bogdan_vs>| well, it is ....it is promoted and used for code issues only 17:40 < lirakis>| right 17:40 < lirakis>| thats all i meant 17:40 < brettnem>| Questions like that should be on the wiki. We answer a lot of questions like that on the list and really a lot of those answers would be good to record on wiki 17:40 < brettnem>| Not sure what a good workflow for that would be 17:41 <@ bogdan_vs>| the idea is good - the most asked questions to end up documented (answered) on wiki 17:41 < lirakis>| brettnem, i think questions like that shoudl be on the list ... but common questions get documented 17:41 < saghul>| as an FAQ? 17:42 <@ bogdan_vs>| we have the FAQ section even now, but not actively maintained 17:42 < lirakis>| nah .. just as tutorials or whatever 17:42 < brettnem>| Yeah but it's easy for even common q's to just easily answered in the list instead of hard copied into a FAQ 17:42 <@ bogdan_vs>| http://www.opensips.org/Documentation/TipsFAQ 17:42 < lirakis>| common use casses 17:42 < lirakis>| more than just FAQ 17:43 <@ bogdan_vs>| I guess it is not so obvious to users that they actually can post on that page too 17:44 <@ bogdan_vs>| but, (coming from a person answering to questions), yes, a better FAQ should simplify and reduce the work 17:45 < razvanc>| I agree, answering emails should be more like pointing to the right resources 17:46 <@ bogdan_vs>| maybe a way to encourage people to search the ML archives 17:46 < lirakis>| i need to sort out my mailing list subs 17:46 < lirakis>| i cant figure out which email account i sub'd on 17:46 < lirakis>| and now i cant respond from my current email client setup lol 17:47 <@ bogdan_vs>| lirakis: give me some options and I can check it for you ;) 17:47 < lirakis>| heh ok 17:47 < lirakis>| ill pm 17:47 < brettnem>| I think people have been pretty hesitant to post on those pages 17:48 < lirakis>| brettnem, i had no idea i could contribute to the website at all 17:48 < lirakis>| so i think making a seperate "wiki" will help with that 17:48 < brettnem>| I think those of us answering questions probably need to step up and immortalize them on a FAQ 17:48 < liviuc>| opensips.org just doesn't feel like a playground site - maybe that's the reason 17:48 < lirakis>| yeah ^ 17:48 < brettnem>| I tend to agree 17:48 < liviuc>| as soon as you're on wiki.xxxxx, you feel you can contribute 17:48 < brettnem>| I wouldn't mind contributing to FAQ 17:49 < brettnem>| Like as stuff comes up. I've been a bit MIA lately but I'd love to help 17:49 < brettnem>| A FAQ engine that allowed questions to be asked would be neat 17:49 < brettnem>| Like How Amazon lets you ask questions 17:50 < brettnem>| And then community members can submit multiple answers. I guess like stack exchange 17:50 < brettnem>| But.. I don't want to necessarily split the effort of the mailing list 17:50 < brettnem>| Not sure what the right balance is 17:51 < lirakis>| i think the wiki is a great idea - its not "duplicated work" IMO 17:51 <@ bogdan_vs>| or like stackoverflow ? 17:51 <@ bogdan_vs>| (but that's more like a forum) 17:51 < lirakis>| its documented - so that on the mailing list ... you can answer a question and say "yes you can do XYZ here is a tutorial wiki.opensips.org/xyz" 17:51 < razvanc>| I think that's what http://www.discourse.org/ is 17:51 < liviuc>| statistically speaking, there are very few opensips questions on stackoverflow 17:51 < brettnem>| Yeah like stackoverflow 17:52 < liviuc>| like 3 / month :) 17:52 < lirakis>| i think thats too much like a forum 17:52 < lirakis>| and that would be duplicated work 17:52 < razvanc>| yes 17:52 < brettnem>| Yeah.. Hrm 17:52 <@ bogdan_vs>| fair 17:52 < lirakis>| i think wiki + mailing list is good IMO 17:52 < razvanc>| it's not actually duplicated work, it's just split :) 17:52 < lirakis>| like i said in my example 17:53 < lirakis>| true ... its fragmented 17:53 < brettnem>| Searching list for answers is a mess tho. Especially for newbies 17:53 < lirakis>| yes - so they can check out wiki.opensips.org 17:53 < razvanc>| I totally agree that the ML archive is hard to search into 17:53 < lirakis>| most supernubes probably arent on the mailing lists at all 17:53 < liviuc>| +1 ... 17:53 < razvanc>| but I don't think a forum like mechanism will improve this at all 17:54 < brettnem>| Well I'd be happy to step up and help contribute to a FAQ as questions come up 17:54 < brettnem>| I don't really like a forum 17:54 < lirakis>| i would also be happy to contribute to a wiki 17:54 < brettnem>| But I like being able to submit questions 17:55 < brettnem>| Maybe submitted questions can be approved answered and added to FAQ shrug 17:55 <@ bogdan_vs>| maybe integrating in a better and more visible way the ML archive 17:55 <@ bogdan_vs>| with a built in search 17:55 < razvanc>| bogdan_vs: that would be nice to have 17:55 < brettnem>| There are lots of ML searchers tho already 17:56 <@ bogdan_vs>| I mean something more than the rudimentary web mailman offers 17:56 < razvanc>| brettnem: yes, but I was saying we should integrate that somewhere we can easily access 17:56 < lirakis>| like .. from the site? 17:56 < razvanc>| yes, both site and wiki 17:57 < lirakis>| "got questions - search our mailing list archives [____________________] " 17:57 < brettnem>| Submit question:________ 17:57 < brettnem>| Answered questions : <list> 17:57 < brettnem>| :) 17:57 < brettnem>| Maybe too much work 17:57 <@ bogdan_vs>| on the "get help" page, we can have a step by step "how to" 17:58 <@ bogdan_vs>| have a question ? 17:58 <@ bogdan_vs>| 1) check the FAQ 17:58 <@ bogdan_vs>| 2) search the ML archive 17:58 <@ bogdan_vs>| 3) ask on ML 17:58 <@ bogdan_vs>| or something like that 17:58 < brettnem>| I think it's really just going to come down to is to maintain it manually 17:59 < brettnem>| Because no one else is asking questions outside of ML as evidenced by stackoverflow 17:59 < brettnem>| Q's will continue to arrive raw on the list 17:59 < Binan1>| what about something like "OpenSIPS" magazine which can be published periodically and contains good quality articles, use cases, news,..... 18:00 <@ bogdan_vs>| well, in some case you will have to give the RTFM or RTFL 18:00 < brettnem>| Opensips magazine 18:00 <@ bogdan_vs>| hmm interesting.... 18:00 <@ bogdan_vs>| maybe something like that can be integrated into the blog ? 18:00 < brettnem>| We could just be like the asterisk guys and abuse people who actually have the nerve to ask questions 18:00 < brettnem>| I kid ... I kid 18:01 <@ bogdan_vs>| Binan1: several people may post on the blog, so it may be like articles 18:02 < lirakis>| Binan1, you have the funding for such a thing - if so, id be happy to be considered for chief editor 18:02 < lirakis>| :P 18:02 < liviuc>| I think a good main site front page (with news) + news mailing list are enough for someone who wants to stay updated with the project 18:03 < lirakis>| well that and github + hooks 18:03 < lirakis>| i find that is actually a great way to keep informed personally 18:03 < lirakis>| seeing new commits etc. 18:03 < liviuc>| true, good one 18:03 < liviuc>| also, we could have the "News" section be auto-updated with every new blog post -> more blog awareness 18:04 < lirakis>| well we are rolling around to 1 hour here 18:04 < lirakis>| any closing thoughts wrap up bogdan_vs etc.? 18:04 <@ bogdan_vs>| yes, time too 18:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| yes, time to 18:05 < razvanc>| I wrote down the ideas we discussed today here 18:05 <@ bogdan_vs>| I think it was a productive discussion, thanks to the input from you all 18:05 < razvanc>| http://www.opensips.org/Community/IRCmeeting20150128 18:05 < lirakis>| ok great - thanks again for organizing the public meetings 18:05 < brettnem>| Thanks guys :) 18:06 < razvanc>| thank you all for attending 18:06 <@ bogdan_vs>| we will try to do a summary and some plan out of this discussion 18:06 <@ bogdan_vs>| Thanks you all !!